Abortion Debate: Attorneys Present Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Pro-Life / Pro-Choice Arguments (1971)


00:00:35
WE’LL HEAR ARGUMENT NUMBER 18, ROE AGAINST WADE. MRS. READINGTON, YOU MAY PROCEED WHEREVER
YOU ARE 00:01:05
Unidentified Speaker READY.>>MR. CHIEF JUSTICE AND MAY IT PLEASE
THE COURT, THE INSTANT CASE IS A DIRECT APPEAL FROM A DECISION OF THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT
COURT FOR… 00:01:38
Unidentified Speaker WOMAN’S RIGHT TO DETERMINE TO CONTINUE OR
TERMINATE A PREGNANCY. ALTHOUGH THE COURT GRANTED DECLARATORY RELIEF, THEY DENIED THE
REQUEST FOR INJUNCTIVE… 00:03:19
Unidentified Speaker WORKING WITH THE STATUTE WHICH PROVIDED THAT
AN ABORTION COULD BE PERFORMED FOR REASONS OF HEALTH OR LIFE. OUR TEXAS STATUTE PROVIDES
AN ABORTION 00:03:29
Unidentified Speaker ONLY WHERE IT IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SAVING
THE LIFE OF THE WOMAN. 00:03:34
Unidentified Speaker SINCE THAT ADDITION WAS RENDERED,
00:03:37 Unidentified Speaker
THE TEXAS COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS, WHICH IS OUR HIGHEST COURT OF JURISDICTION, HAS
HELD THAT THE TEXAS LAW IS NOT VAGUE BUT SAYING IT IS MORE DEFINITE…
00:07:44 Unidentified Speaker
ARE A GOOD MANY THRESHOLD QUESTIONS, ARE THERE NOT, OF –>>YES, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE.
>>JURISDICTION.>>I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT, OF COURSE, TO…
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COURT THAT IN 00:07:54
Unidentified Speaker MY READING OF
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YOUNGER VS HARRISON 00:08:00
Unidentified Speaker ALL THE COURT WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IN THOSE
CASES WAS THIZATION WHERE THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO INTERFERE WITH A PENDING STATE CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION. IN… 00:08:09
Unidentified Speaker POINTED OUT,
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THE ORIGINAL 00:08:11
Unidentified Speaker PARTIES TO THIS MATTER ARE WOMEN, AND IN ONE
CASE THE HUSBAND. THE WOMEN, CERTAINLY, ARE NOT SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION IN THE STATE OF
TEXAS. THEY ARE… 00:08:57
Unidentified Speaker EVEN IN THAT SITUATION AND THAT IN FACT SHE
IS THE VICTIM OF OUR LAW. SHE CAN — THERE IS NO DECLARATORY RELIEF AVAILABLE
00:09:04 Unidentified Speaker
FOR THESE PLAINTIFFS. THEIR ONLY FORUM WAS THE FEDERAL COURT, AND IT WAS TO THOSE COURTS
THAT THEY TURNED.>>YOUR THREE PLAINTIFFS REAR, REPRESENTING…
00:09:32 Unidentified Speaker
AND THEN THIRD IS A PHYSICIAN –>>00:09:34
Unidentified Speaker YES.>>WHO IS UNDER INDICTMENT, OR WAS
00:09:36 Unidentified Speaker
AT THE TIME OF THIS COMPLAINT.>>THE PHYSICIAN INTERVENED AFTER THE ORDER
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WAS ENTERED GRANTING JANE ROE A THREE-JUDGE 00:09:44
Unidentified Speaker COURT AND HE INTERVENED AGAIN, ASKING ONLY
THAT FUTURE PROSECUTION UNDER THE LAW BE ENJOINED. HE DID NOT ASK ANY RELIEF OF THE COURT RELATING
TO HIS 00:09:54
Unidentified Speaker PENDING STATE CRIMINAL
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PROSECUTION. HE DID SPECIFICALLY, IN HIS 00:09:58
Unidentified Speaker COMPLAINT, RESERVE THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR FUTURE
RELIEF, BUT THAT WAS NEVER DONE, AND CERTAINLY IN THE FUTURE IF HE WAS ASKED FOR RELIEF THE
COURT WOULD… 00:12:50
Unidentified Speaker CRIMINAL. AND EVEN THERE ARE SOME CASES WHICH
INDICATE THAT OUR STATE SUPREME COURT WOULD NOT
00:12:56 Unidentified Speaker
HAVE THE ABILITY TO INDAMUS ANY OF THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OFFICERS BECAUSE THE TEXAS COURT
OF CRIMINAL APPEALS HAS JURISDICTION AS TO ALL CRIMINAL …
00:14:48 Unidentified Speaker
IF THE PREGNANCY WOULD RESULT IN THE BIRTH OF A
00:14:52 Unidentified Speaker
DEFORMED OR DEFECTIVE CHILD HE — HE HAS NO RELIEF
00:14:57 Unidentified Speaker
REGARDLESS OF THE PURPOSE OF — SHE HAS NO RELIEF. I THINK IT IS WITHOUT QUESTION THAT
PREGNANCY TO A WOMAN CAN COMPLETELY DISRUPT HER LIFE, WHETHER…
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BECAUSE OF COURSE, WE CANNOT HERE BE INVOLVED SIMPLY WITH MATTERS OF POLICY, AS YOU KNOW.
>>YOUR HONOR, IN THE LOWER COURTS AS I’M SURE YOU ARE AWARE…
00:19:09 Unidentified Speaker
SUBMITTED TO THE COURT AND DISTRIBUTED AMONG COUNCIL ENTITLED THE PHOENIX OF ABORTIONAL
FREEDOM THAT AT THE TIME THE CONSTITUTION WAS ADOPTED THERE…
00:20:48 Unidentified Speaker
COURT FOUND THE RIGHT TO RESIDE IN THE NINTH AMENDMENT, WE POINTED OUR ATTENTION IN THE
BRIEF TO 00:20:54
Unidentified Speaker THAT PARTICULAR ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION.
BUT I THINK WE WOULD NOT PRESUME — I DO 00:21:04
Unidentified Speaker FEEL THAT —
00:21:06 Unidentified Speaker
THAT INSOMUCH AS THE COURT SAID THAT THE NINTH AMENDMENT APPLIED TO THE RIGHTS RESERVED TO
THE PEOPLE THAT THE NINTH AMENDMENT IS THE APPROPRIATE PLACE…
00:22:27 Unidentified Speaker
HAVE RESERVED TO THE WOMAN AS BEING THE VICTIM AND THEY HAVE NEVER REFERRED TO ANYONE ELSE
AS BEING 00:22:32
Unidentified Speaker THE VICTIM. TIMES HAVE CERTAINLY CHANGED.
I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT IN TEXAS SELF-ABORTION IS NO CRIME. THE WOMAN
IS GUILTY OF NO CRIME… 00:24:15
Unidentified Speaker THE SITUATION IN WHICH THE CASE IS HANDLED.
CERTAINLY, I THINK AS A 00:24:20
Unidentified Speaker PRACTICAL MATTER, THOUGH, MOST OF THE STATES
THAT DO HAVE SOME TIME LIMIT INDICATED STILL PERMIT ABORTIONS BEYOND
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THE TIME LIMIT FOR 00:24:29
Unidentified Speaker SPECIFIED REASONS, USUALLY WHERE THE HEALTH
OF THE MOTHER IS INVOLVED.>>WHAT’S YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION THERE?>>AS TO A
TIME LIMIT?>>WHATEVER… 00:24:53
Unidentified Speaker 00:24:56
Unidentified Speaker THAT IT IS THE
00:24:57 Unidentified Speaker
FREEDOM OF WITH THE WOMAN TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT TO CONTINUE A PREGNANCY. OBVIOUSLY
I HAVE A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TIME SAYING THE STATE HAS NO INTEREST…
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I GUESS BY PERSONS CONSIDERING THE ISSUE OUTSIDE THE LEGAL CONTEXT. I THINK AS FAR AS THE STATE
–>>DO YOU OR DON’T YOU SAY THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL… 00:25:29
Unidentified Speaker RIGHTS YOU INSIST
00:25:30 Unidentified Speaker
ON REACHES FROM THE TIME OF BIRTH OR –>>THE CONSTITUTION AS I READ IT AND AS
00:25:35 Unidentified Speaker
IS INTERPRETED AND 00:25:37
Unidentified Speaker DOCUMENTS BY PROFESSOR MEANS ATTACHES PROTECTION
TO THE PERSON AT THE TIME OF BIRTH THOSE PERSONS BORN ARE CITIZENS.
00:25:44 Unidentified Speaker
THE ENUMERATION CLAUSE. WE COUNT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:25:47 Unidentified Speaker
BORN. THE CONSTITUTION, AS I SEE IT, GIVES PROTECTION
00:25:50 Unidentified Speaker
TO PEOPLE AFTER 00:25:53
Unidentified Speaker BIRTH.>>(INAUDIBLE) THE ISSUE HERE, I GUESS,
ON YOUR APPEAL IS WHETHER YOU ARE ENTITLED TO INJUNCTIVE RELIEF.>>YES, YOUR HONOR.
>>ASSUMING THAT… 00:26:16
Unidentified Speaker INJUNCTIVE RELIEF? THERE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS
(INAUDIBLE)>>YES, SIR. CERTAINLY IN YOUR DISSENT YOU POINT OUT IN (INAUDIBLE)
00:26:24 Unidentified Speaker
DISSENTING OPINION –>>THAT WAS A DEFENSE.>>IT WAS
00:26:27 Unidentified Speaker
A DEFENSE, THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT STANDARDS WHICH APPLY TO THE DECLARATORY JUDGMENT AND
TO INJUNCTIVE RELIEF.>>I GUESS YOU SAID THAT IN (INAUDIBLE)…
00:26:41 Unidentified Speaker
SAID FOLLOWING LICKLER VERSUS TUTOR, 00:26:46
Unidentified Speaker THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE
00:26:48 Unidentified Speaker
GRANTING DECLARATORY RELIEF DIFFERENT RULES APPLIED TO INJUNCTIVE RELIEF BUT THE OPINIONS
OF THIS COURT HAS ESTABLISHED 00:26:55
Unidentified Speaker WHETHER THERE IS GREAT AND IMMEDIATE THREAT
00:26:58 Unidentified Speaker
OF IRREPARRABLE INJURY WITH NO ADEQUATE REMEDY IN STATE COURT THAT AN INJUNCTION IS STILL
PROPER AND IT IS OUR POSITION THAT THERE IS GREAT AND IMMEDIATE…
00:27:30 Unidentified Speaker
HONOR.>>WHAT ABOUT 00:27:32
Unidentified Speaker THE DOCTOR, WHERE A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION IS
ALREADY PENDING AGAINST HIM?>>THE DOCTOR, AS I SAID, I WAS ASKING NO
00:27:40 Unidentified Speaker
RELIEF AS TO THE PENDING PROSECUTION, HE WAS ONLY ASKING RELIEF AS TO THE FUTURE –>>
00:27:44 Unidentified Speaker
NOT ASKING FOR DECLARATORY 00:27:46
Unidentified Speaker JUDGMENT?>>YES, YOUR HONOR, HE JOINED IN
BOTH THE REQUEST FOR THE DECLARATORY JUDGMENT –>>
00:27:50 Unidentified Speaker
ISN’T YOUNGER 00:27:53
Unidentified Speaker AND (INAUDIBLE) CASES COVER DECLARATORY JUDGMENT?
>>WHERE THERE 00:27:58
Unidentified Speaker WERE PENDING — SAMUELS VERSUS MICHAEL, AS
I READ IT, DID SAY THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A REQUEST 00:28:05
Unidentified Speaker FOR DECLARATORY JUDGMENT, THERE
00:28:07 Unidentified Speaker
WOULD BE AN EFFECT ON A PENDING CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.>>WAS ONE PENDING –>>THERE WAS ONE PENDING
WHEN THIS 00:28:13
Unidentified Speaker ACTION WAS BROUGHT. AGAINST DR.
00:28:18 Unidentified Speaker
HALFORD. HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE, WE SUBMIT THAT IF THERE IS TO BE ANY MEANING TO THE
FEDERAL COURTS AS THE SUPREME ARBITERS OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS…
00:28:30 Unidentified Speaker
TO ACT, AT LEAST IN 00:28:32
Unidentified Speaker SOME FORM, WHEN THERE ARE PENDING CRIMINAL
PROSECUTIONS, NOT PARTICULARLY AGAINST THE PERSON INVOLVED IN THE PROSECUTIONS BUT OTHER
–>>(INAUDIBLE)… 00:29:02
Unidentified Speaker THAT?>>I’M SUGGESTING THAT IN IN CASE, THE
WOMEN IN PARTICULAR BROUGHT A DECLARATORY ACTION HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PENDING
STATE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION…. 00:29:17
Unidentified Speaker DOCTOR CERTAINLY SHOULDN’T BE SUFFICIENT –>>WE’RE
TALKING ABOUT THE DOCTOR’S 00:29:20
Unidentified Speaker CASE.>>RIGHT. AND BECAUSE THE DOCTOR INTERVENED,
WHEN HE WAS ASKING 00:29:24
Unidentified Speaker NO RELIEF AS TO THE PENDING STATE CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION, THAT HAS INTERVENTION –>>YOU MEAN HE WAS ASKING NOTHING — HE WAS ASKING
00:29:34 Unidentified Speaker
WHAT? AGAINST THE CONTINUEANCE OF THAT 00:29:36
Unidentified Speaker PROGRESS?>>THAT’S RIGHT.>>DECLARATORY
JUDGMENT –>>AS 00:29:39
Unidentified Speaker TO FUTURE PROSECUTION.>>
00:29:40 Unidentified Speaker
EXCEPT THAT HE WANTED DECLARATORY JUDGMENT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT.>>YES.>>THE UNDERLYING
STATUTE ON WHICH THE PROSECUTION WAS BROUGHT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL….
00:29:50 Unidentified Speaker
THAT’S WHAT SAMUELS AND MICHAEL SAID HE DIDN’T HAVE.>>ASK WHICH YOUR DISSENT SAID HE DIDN’T
HAVE.>>00:29:57
Unidentified Speaker 00:29:58
Unidentified Speaker I
00:29:59 Unidentified Speaker
REPEAT — (INAUDIBLE)>>00:30:00
Unidentified Speaker OK. I THINK PERHAPS WE WOULD STRESS THAT
00:30:03 Unidentified Speaker
THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE 00:30:04
Unidentified Speaker ACTIONS BEFORE THE COURT. FIRST, THAT OF THE
WOMEN. AND SECOND, THAT OF 00:30:09
Unidentified Speaker THE DOCTOR.>>SO THAT EVEN THOUGH –>>EVEN
THOUGH THE DOCTOR — EVEN THOUGH 00:30:12
Unidentified Speaker THE COURT MIGHT FIND THAT THE DOCTOR WAS AN
INAPPROPRIATE 00:30:15
Unidentified Speaker PARTY FOR RELIEF IT CERTAINLY WOULD NOT AFFECT
00:30:19 Unidentified Speaker
THE ORIGINAL ACTION AS BROUGHT BY THE WOMEN.>>
00:30:21 Unidentified Speaker
ALL RIGHT. I COME BACK AGAIN, IF WE’RE LEFT ONLY WITH THE LADIES’ ACTION, ARE YOU SUGGESTING
00:30:29 Unidentified Speaker
THAT 00:30:31
Unidentified Speaker THE DECLARATORY RELIEF THEY ALREADY OBTAINED
IS NOT ENOUGH BECAUSE THAT DOESN’T HELP TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY?>>BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL
00:30:41 Unidentified Speaker
SUBJECT TO THE IRREPARABLE INJURY AND HAD NO STATE REMEDY. IF THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO CONTINUE
TO LITIGATE THEIR INTEREST IN THIS SITUATION, ANYTIME THERE…
00:30:59 Unidentified Speaker
STATE COURT ON APPEAL — OR IT WILL BE APPEALED HERE, I THINK, AND CERTAINLY IF THEY CANNOT
LITIGATE THEIR INTERESTS WHILE THERE IS PROSECUTION PENDING…
00:31:36 Unidentified Speaker
RIGHTS BUT THE RIGHTS OF HIS PATIENTS AND THOSE SAME PATIENTS ARE SUFFERING THE SAME
SORT OF IRREPARABLE INJURY THAT THE ORIGINAL 00:31:44
Unidentified Speaker PLAINTIFFS WERE SUFFERING.>>COULDN’T THE
DOCTOR RAISE THE SAME POINT IN THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION?>>YES, YOUR HONOR, HE CAN. BUT
I — I DON’T FEEL… 00:32:07
Unidentified Speaker ISSUES HERE. THE ISSUE INVOLVING THE DOCTOR,
DA>>YES.>>00:32:10
Unidentified Speaker IS TO LITIGATE EVERYTHING HE’S NOW LITIGATING
IN THE STATE COURT.>>YES, YOUR HONOR, MY POINT BEING THAT THESE WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE
COMPELLED TO LEAVE… 00:32:25
Unidentified Speaker CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, ISN’T HE? YOU CAN COUNT
ON HIM TO DO THAT.>>WELL, I THINK THERE ARE
00:32:29 Unidentified Speaker
DIFFERENT 00:32:30
Unidentified Speaker INTERESTS INVOLVED. IN MOST
00:32:34 Unidentified Speaker
CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS BRING UP OTHER PROBLEMS –>>”I DIDN’T DO IT” OR SOMETHING.>>OR
THE WITNESSES HAVE DISAPPEARED 00:32:42
Unidentified Speaker OR –>>HAS THIS DEFENSE EVER BEEN OPPOSED
IN A TEXAS CRIMINAL 00:32:48
Unidentified Speaker CASE FOR CONSTITUTIONAL DEFENSE?>>YES, YOUR
HONOR, THERE IS ONE RECENT OPINION, THOMPSON VERSUS THE STATE OF TEXAS WHICH THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL ATTEMPTED… 00:32:59
Unidentified Speaker AND THE COURT REJECTED IT, IT WAS A DECISION
00:33:01 Unidentified Speaker
ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO WHICH ORIGINATED IN HOUSTON. A
00:33:05 Unidentified Speaker
DOCTOR THERE WAS INDITED ON A CHARGE OF — INDICTED ON A CHARGE OF
00:33:10 Unidentified Speaker
ABORTION. AT TRIAL HE USED ONLY AN ALIBI DEFENSE BUT ON APPEAL HE DID RAISE THE SAME CONSTITUTIONAL
QUESTIONS THAT WE RAISED IN THE FEDERAL COURTS –…
00:33:39 Unidentified Speaker
THE CHIEF 00:33:40
Unidentified Speaker JUSTICE.>>SECOND THEY DID NOT DETERMINE
WHETHER THERE WAS A RIGHT TO PRIVACY BUT DID HOLD THERE WAS A COMPEMMING INTEREST, SO IN
— COMPELLING INTEREST… 00:33:59
Unidentified Speaker TO THE FEDERAL COURT OPINION FROM WHICH WE
ARE 00:34:01
Unidentified Speaker APPEALING.>>THAT CASE CAN BE (INAUDIBLE)
>>THEY HAVE FILED A MOTION FOR REHEARING IN THE STATE COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS WHICH
WILL BE ARGUED TOMORROW…. 00:34:12
Unidentified Speaker UNLIKELY THAT THE COURT WOULD CHANGE ITS OPINION,
AND IT IS THE INTENTION 00:34:17
Unidentified Speaker OF THOSE PARTIES TO APPEAL.>>DOES TEXAS
LAW, IN 00:34:22
Unidentified Speaker OTHER AREAS OF THE LAW, GIVE RIGHTS
00:34:24 Unidentified Speaker
TO UNBORN CHILDREN IN THE AREAS OF TRUST, ESTATES AND WILLS OR –>>NO, YOUR HONOR,
ONLY IF THEY’RE BORN ALIVE. THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS RECENTLY…
00:34:42 Unidentified Speaker
THE CONDITION THAT IT BE BORN ALIVE. THE SAME IS TRUE OF OUR PROPERTY LAW. THE CHILD MUST
BE BORN ALIVE. AND I THINK THERE IS A 00:34:50
Unidentified Speaker DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE CHILDREN WHICH ARE
ULTIMATELY BORN, AND I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE TO GIVE THEM RETROACTIVE RIGHTS, I THINK IT’S
A COMPLETELY… 00:35:25
Unidentified Speaker THERE WAS NO CAUSE OF ACTION WHATSOEVER.>>FOR
THE MOTHER –>>I’M SPEAKING, EXCUSE ME, SOLELY FOR THE
00:35:33 Unidentified Speaker
FETUS, THAT THE FETUS HAD NO INDEPENDENT RIGHT, THAT THE MOTHER –>>
00:35:38 Unidentified Speaker
THE MOTHER RECOVERING FROM THE DEATH OF THE CHILD –>>
00:35:41 Unidentified Speaker
ONLY FOR HER INJURY.>>ONLY FOR HERS. DID THAT INCLUDE ANYTHING WITH REGARD TO THE CHILD?
>>NO, YOUR HONOR. 00:35:49
Unidentified Speaker THANK YOU.>>THANK YOU, MRS.
00:35:51 Unidentified Speaker
WEDDINGTON. MR. FLOYD.>>MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, MAY IT PLEASE THE
00:35:59 Unidentified Speaker
COURT. IT’S AN OLD JOKE, BUT 00:36:02
Unidentified Speaker WHEN A MAN ARGUES AGAINST TWO
00:36:04 Unidentified Speaker
BEAUTIFUL LADIES LIKE THIS THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE THE LAST
00:36:08 Unidentified Speaker
WORD. I — 00:36:11
Unidentified Speaker BEFORE I PROCEED TO THE ORIGINAL ISSUE IN
THIS CASE, 00:36:16
Unidentified Speaker WHICH WAS THE PROPRIETY OF THE TRIAL COURT
GRANT — OR DENYING INJUNCTIVE RELIEF, I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO THE COURT’S ATTENTION SOME
MATTERS CONCERNING… 00:38:53
Unidentified Speaker SAY THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD UPHOLD HER STANDING
OR ELIMINATE THE MOOTNESS 00:38:57
Unidentified Speaker ISSUE WOULD BE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A CLASS
ACTION 00:39:00
Unidentified Speaker ON HER PART.>>YES, YOUR HONOR.>>THE RECORD
THAT CAME UP TO THIS COURT CONTAINS THE AMENDED 00:39:13
Unidentified Speaker PETITION OF JANE ROE. AN UNSIGNED ALIAS AFFIDAVIT.
AND THAT IS ALL. SHE 00:39:26
Unidentified Speaker ALLEGES THAT SHE WAS PREGNANT ON
00:39:28 Unidentified Speaker
APRIL THE 20TH, 1970, WHICH IS SOME 21 MONTHS AGO. NOW, I THINK THAT IT IS — IT HAS BEEN
RECOGNIZED BY THE APPELLANT’S COUNSEL THAT SHE IS NO LONGER…
00:42:19 Unidentified Speaker
THEIR STATUTE HAD BEEN — IT’S NOT TRUE HERE.>>IT’S NOT WHAT WE CALL A
00:42:24 Unidentified Speaker
WHITE HORSE.>>I 00:42:35
Unidentified Speaker UNDERSTAND.>>IN RESPECT TO THE CLASS ACTION
PORTION OF THIS, AND I SAY I HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO SUPPORT THIS PROPOSITION, BUT IT WOULD
APPEAR 00:42:43
Unidentified Speaker THAT IN ORDER FOR A CLASS ACTION TO CONTINUE
IF THERE BE ONE TO BEGIN WITH IS THAT ONE PLAINTIFF MUST REMAIN OR ELSE
00:42:55 Unidentified Speaker
AN INTERVENOR, 00:42:56
Unidentified Speaker OR SOMEONE TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CLASS.
BECAUSE THIS IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE CLASS ACTION. TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE IN COURT.
THE POSITION… 00:43:38
Unidentified Speaker IF I MAY.>>OK.>>I DO NOT BELIEVE IT CAN
BE DONE. THERE ARE SITUATIONS IN WHICH, OF COURSE, AS THE COURT KNOWS, NO REMEDY IS PROVIDED.
I THINK SHE… 00:43:55
Unidentified Speaker SHE BECOMES PREGNANT. THAT IS THE TIME OF
THE CHOICE. IT’S LIKE, 00:44:00
Unidentified Speaker MORE OR LESS, THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR
00:44:02 Unidentified Speaker
YEARS OF HER LIFE WE DON’T REMEMBER ANYTHING BUT ONCE A CHILD IS BORN THE WOMAN NO LONGER
HAS A CHOICE AND I THINK PREGNANCY MAY TERMINATE THAT CHOICE…
00:44:33 Unidentified Speaker
ON MOVING.>>YOUR HONOR, APPELLANT IS UNDER TWO ARGUMENTS CHARGED WITH THE OFFENSE OF
PERFORMING AN ABORTION. THERE ARE NO ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT…
00:44:53 Unidentified Speaker
APPELLANT HALFORD OR NONE IN HIS AFFIDAVIT THAT THERE IS ANY BAD
00:44:58 Unidentified Speaker
FAITH PROSECUTION, BAD FAITH ARREST, HARASSMENT OF HIM AT ALL TO BRING HIM WITHIN PROSKEY’S
SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. WE THINK THE CASES OF YOUNGER VS…
00:46:54 Unidentified Speaker
CAN DENY INJINCHINGTIVE RELIEF.>>CERTAINLY IF THE JUDGMENT ABOUT THE — IF THE DECLARATORY
JUDGMENT WAS ERRONEOUS, IT WAS ALSO RIGHT TO DENY AN INJUNCTION….
00:47:13 Unidentified Speaker
COURT, OF COURSE –>>DIDN’T APPEAL.>>WE COULD NOT TO THIS COURT, YOUR
00:47:19 Unidentified Speaker
HONOR, WE HAVE TO GO TO THE FIFTH CIRCUIT, SO WE HAVE –>>ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO SUSTAIN
THE DENIAL OF AN INJUNCTION HERE ON THE GROUNDS THAT THE
00:47:29 Unidentified Speaker
DECLARATORY JUDGMENT WAS IMPROPER?>>WE 00:47:31
Unidentified Speaker ARE ASKING THE COURT —
00:47:34 Unidentified Speaker
REQUESTING THE COURT TO DO THIS. 00:47:36
Unidentified Speaker IF THE COURT GETS INTO
00:47:37 Unidentified Speaker
THE MERITS OF INJUNCTIVE RELIEF, WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS PROPER UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES,
00:47:43 Unidentified Speaker
THAT THIS COURT GO FORWARD AND CONTINUE THE OTHER — OR CONTINUE THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES
AND MAKE A DECISION OR NOT.>>CAN WE DO 00:47:53
Unidentified Speaker THAT? YOU AND THE FIFTH CIRCUIT, BECAUSE WE
SAID YOU COULDN’T CROSS-APPEAL FROM THE DECLARATORY JUDGMENT, YOU COULD ONLY CROSS-APPEAL FROM
THE GRANTING… 00:48:13
Unidentified Speaker YOU’RE HERE. YOUR OPPONENT HAS BROUGHT A DIRECT
APPEAL HERE BECAUSE YOUR OPPONENT WAS DENIED AN UNJUNCTION BY THE THREE-JUDGE DISTRICT
COURT.>>YES,… 00:48:23
Unidentified Speaker A CROSS APPEAL HERE BECAUSE YOU WON
00:48:25 Unidentified Speaker
FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF SUCCESSFULLY RESISTING THE INJUNCTION.>>YES, SIR.>>NOW THAT YOU
ARE HERE AS THE APPELLEE, YOU ARE ARGUING THAT AN
00:48:34 Unidentified Speaker
INJUNCTION SHOULD NOT HAVE ISSUED AND PART OF THAT JUDGMENT VERY LEGITIMATELY CAN BE
THAT ON THE MERITS THE COURT 00:48:41
Unidentified Speaker WAS WRONG AND THAT IT SHOULDN’T HAVE
00:48:43 Unidentified Speaker
ISSUED A DECLARATORY JUDGMENT OR AN INJUNCTION.>>YES, YOUR HONOR.>>IS THAT YOUR POSITION?
>>00:48:50
Unidentified Speaker YES.
00:48:51 Unidentified Speaker
NOW THE PROCEDURES IN THE FIFTH CIRCUIT HAVE BEEN STAYED OR ABATED –>>(INAUDIBLE) SAY
YOUR POSITION MAKES SENSE TO ME. (INAUDIBLE) ON THE COURT OPPOSE…
00:49:08 Unidentified Speaker
WANT TO BE REPETITION, 00:49:09
Unidentified Speaker BUT A MOTION
00:49:10 Unidentified Speaker
HAS BEEN FILED IN THE FIFTH CIRCUIT TO HOLD THE APPEAL IN ABEYANCE UNTIL A DETERMINATION
BY THIS COURT.>>YOU 00:49:17
Unidentified Speaker DIDN’T ASK — HE DIDN’T FILE ANY MOTION HERE
ASKING US TO BRING YOUR APPEAL PENDING IN THE FIFTH CIRCUIT HERE FOR A DECISION WITH
THIS APPEAL, DID… 00:49:28
Unidentified Speaker IN OUR REPLY TO THE JURISDICTION AND IN OUR
BRIEF. WE HAVE PRESENTED IT IN THAT 00:49:38
Unidentified Speaker MANNER. YOUR HONOR, WE FEEL THAT THIS COURT
CAN AND SHOULD CONSIDER ALL ISSUES, 00:49:45
Unidentified Speaker AND UNDER THE STERLING AND FLORIDA LYMAN CAR
GROWERS AND CARTER CASES WHICH ARE CITED IN THE BRIEFS OF THE PARTIES.>>(INAUDIBLE)
TEXAS INTEREST –… 00:50:20
Unidentified Speaker THE COURT OF APPEALS DID NOT DECIDE THE ISSUE
OF PRIVACY. IT WAS NOT BEFORE THE COURT. OR THE RIGHT OF CHOICE ISSUE. THE STATE — THE
STATE COURT, 00:50:31
Unidentified Speaker THE COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS HELD THAT THE
STATE HAD A COMPELLING INTEREST BECAUSE OF THE PROTECTION OF FETAL LIFE. OF FETAL LIFE.
PROTECTION. THEY… 00:51:26
Unidentified Speaker HUMAN BEING? I DON’T KNOW, EXCEPT THAT I WILL
SAY THIS. AS MEDICAL 00:51:33
Unidentified Speaker SCIENCE PROGRESSES, MAYBE THE LAW WILL PROGRESS
ALONG WITH IT. MAYBE AT ONE TIME IT COULD BE POSSIBLY, I SUPPOSE, THAT IT COULD BE PASSED.
WHETHER OR… 00:52:04
Unidentified Speaker COVERS THE ENTIRE PERIOD OF PREGNANCY.>>YES,
IT DOES, MR. JUSTICE, 00:52:10
Unidentified Speaker YES, SIR.>>MR. FLOYD, DOES THAT — I DON’T
FIND THAT (INAUDIBLE) I GATHER YOU SAID IT HAS BEEN DECIDED RECENTLY.>>
00:52:18 Unidentified Speaker
MR. 00:52:19
Unidentified Speaker JUSTICE, THIS CASE IS
00:52:20 Unidentified Speaker
JUST A RECENT CASE.>>00:52:22
Unidentified Speaker DO YOU HAVE A CITATION?>>IT
00:52:24 Unidentified Speaker
IS NOT IN THE REPORTER SYSTEM YET.>>ARE YOU GOING TO PROVIDE US WITH
00:52:29 Unidentified Speaker
A TRANSCRIPT?>>I WILL BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE THE COURT WITH COPIES OF
00:52:33 Unidentified Speaker
THAT. THIS IS NUMBER 00:52:39
Unidentified Speaker 00:52:42
Unidentified Speaker 44, 070, C.W. THOMPSON VERSUS
00:52:45 Unidentified Speaker
THE STATE OF 00:52:48
Unidentified Speaker 00:52:50
Unidentified Speaker TEXAS. THE OPINION WAS DELIVERED ON NOVEMBER
THE 2ND, 1971. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE THE COURT WITH THIS COPY IF THE COURT SO DESIRES.
>>THAT’S… 00:53:32
Unidentified Speaker THAT IN ADDITION TO THE THOMPSON CASE DECIDED
00:53:36 Unidentified Speaker
A HUGE CASE IN REGARD TO VAGUENESS 00:53:38
Unidentified Speaker AND SAID THAT IT WAS CONTROLLING THE ISSUES,
AND 00:53:43
Unidentified Speaker AS I RECALL,
00:53:45 Unidentified Speaker
DR. THOMPSON RAISED THE ISSUE OF HOW CAN YOU FIND ME GUILTY OF MURDER — I MEAN, OF
00:53:53 Unidentified Speaker
ABORTION IF YOU MAKE NO DETERMINATION THAT THE FETUS IS ALIVE AT THE TIME I PERFORMED
THIS, IN EFFECT, IS WHAT HE’S SAYING. HE NEVER ADMITTED DOING…
00:54:36 Unidentified Speaker
I THINK YOU ALSO SAID THAT WAS PERHAPS NOT ITS ORIGINAL PURPOSE.>>WELL, I’M NOT SURE
OF THAT.>>IT MAY BE RATHER IMPORTANT. IN A CONSTITUTIONAL CASE…
00:55:03 Unidentified Speaker
BE THE SAME IN 00:55:05
Unidentified Speaker THIS RESPECT. THERE HAVE BEEN STATISTICS FURNISHED
TO THIS COURT IN VARIOUS BRIEFS FROM VARIOUS GROUPS AND FROM MEDICAL
00:55:19 Unidentified Speaker
SOCIETIES OF DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PHYSICIANS AND GYNECOLOGISTS OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE, THESE
STATISTICS HAVE NOT SHOWN ME, FOR INSTANCE — FOR EXAMPLE,…
00:56:28 Unidentified Speaker
LEGISLATION.>>I AM — AND THIS IS JUST FROM MY — I SPEAK PERSONALLY, IF I MAY, I WOULD
THINK THAT EVEN WHEN THIS STATUTE WAS FIRST PASSED THERE WAS…
00:56:50 Unidentified Speaker
1900, 1907, SOMEWHERE IN THERE.>>IT GOES BACK –>>IT GOES BACK MANY –>>19TH CENTURY.
>>BEFORE THAT THERE WERE NO CRIMINAL ABORTION LAWS IN…
00:57:01 Unidentified Speaker
I KNOW, NO. I THINK THIS WAS MAYBE SET OUT IN SOME
00:57:05 Unidentified Speaker
OF THE BRIEFS. I –>>IN ANY EVENT, MR. FLOYD, APART FROM YOUR PERSONAL ATTITUDE THE COURT
00:57:12 Unidentified Speaker
IS OPEN ON THE INTENT OF THE STATUTE, IS 00:57:14
Unidentified Speaker IT NOT?>>YES. YES.>>
00:57:16 Unidentified Speaker
I CAN’T SQUARE THAT MOST 00:57:18
Unidentified Speaker RECENT PRONOUNSMENT WITH THE EARLIER DECISIONS
OF THE TEXAS COURT THAT REFER TO THE MOTHER 00:57:23
Unidentified Speaker AS THE VICTIM. CAN YOU?>>WELL, AS I
00:57:29 Unidentified Speaker
SAY, YOUR HONOR, I DON’T THINK THE 00:57:34
Unidentified Speaker COURTS HAVE COME TO
00:57:37 Unidentified Speaker
THE CONCLUSION THAT THE UNBORN HAS FULL JURISTIC RIGHTS. NOT YET. MAYBE THEY WILL. I DON’T
KNOW. I JUST DON’T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE 10-POINT.>>IN THE…
00:57:52 Unidentified Speaker
PREGNANCY?>>SIR?>>IN THE FIRST FEW WEEKS OF PREGNANCY?>>AT ANY TIME, MR. JUSTICE.
WE MAKE NO DISTINCTIONS.>>(INAUDIBLE) THERE ARE NOT.>>WE…
00:58:11 Unidentified Speaker
THE MOMENT OF 00:58:13
Unidentified Speaker IMPREGNATION.>>AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC
DATA TO 00:58:16
Unidentified Speaker SUPPORT THAT?>>WELL, WE BEGIN, MR. JUSTICE,
00:58:21 Unidentified Speaker
IN OUR BRIEF WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE HUMAN EMBRYO CARRYING
00:58:27 Unidentified Speaker
IT THROUGH TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE FETUS 00:58:30
Unidentified Speaker FROM ABOUT 7-9 DAYS AFTER CONCEPTION.>>
00:58:34 Unidentified Speaker
WHAT ABOUT SIX DAYS?>>WE DON’T KNOW.>>BUT THE
00:58:39 Unidentified Speaker
STATUTE (INAUDIBLE) ONE HOUR.>>I DON’T — MR. JUSTICE, THERE
ARE UNANSWERABLE QUESTIONS IN THIS FIELD.
THIS IS AN ARTLESS STATEMENT ON MY PART.>>… 00:58:54
Unidentified Speaker QUESTION. THANK
00:58:56 Unidentified Speaker
YOU.>>WHEN DOES THE SOUL COME INTO THE UNBORN? 00:59:00
Unidentified Speaker IF THE PERSON BELIEVES IN A SOUL? I DON’T
00:59:05 Unidentified Speaker
00:59:14 Unidentified Speaker
KNOW. I ASSUME THE 00:59:18
Unidentified Speaker APPELLANTS NOW ARE OPERATING UNDER –>>I
ASSUME THE APPELLANTS NOW ARE OPERATING UNDER THE NINTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS. THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS
OF FIRST… 00:59:42
Unidentified Speaker OF ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP. I SEE NO MERIT IN
THEIR CONTENTION THAT
IT COULD POSSIBLY BE UNDER FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR PRESS — IN FACT, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME…
01:02:03 Unidentified Speaker
THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION CONCERNING 01:02:08
Unidentified Speaker BIRTH, CONTRACEPTION OR
01:02:15 Unidentified Speaker
ABORTION. THE APPELLEE DOES NOT DISAGREE WITH THE APPELLANTS’ STATEMENT THAT A WOMAN HAS
A CHOICE, BUT AS WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY 01:02:23
Unidentified Speaker MENTIONED WE FEEL THAT THIS CHOICE IS LEFT
UP — IS THE WOMAN’S PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT SHE BECOMES PREGNANT. THIS IS
THE TIME OF
THE CHOICE. NOW,…
01:03:18 Unidentified Speaker
THE PROCEDURE — AND 01:03:19
Unidentified Speaker I’M — NOW I’M TELLING THE COURT SOMETHING
THAT IS OUTSIDE 01:03:23
Unidentified Speaker THE RECORD BUT I UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURE
WHEN A WOMAN IS BROUGHT IN AFTER RAPE IS YOU TRY TO STOP WHATEVER HAS OCCURRED IMMEDIATELY
BY THE PROPER 01:03:32
Unidentified Speaker PROCEDURE IN THE HOSPITAL,
01:03:35 Unidentified Speaker
IMMEDIATELY SHE’S TAKEN THERE, IF SHE REPORTS IT
01:03:39 Unidentified Speaker
IMMEDIATELY, BUT NO, THERE IS NOTHING, NO STATUTE. AS I PREVIOUSLY INFORMED THE COURT,
THE STATISTICS — OR THE PEOPLE WHO PREPARE THE STATISTICS AND…
01:05:24 Unidentified Speaker IS
01:05:27 Unidentified Speaker
SUBMITTED.

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